The Connection Between Todd Philips' Joker and Matt Reeves' The Batman, Explained (2024)

Since the release of Matt Reeves' The Batman, many viewers have wondered if the story takes place within the same continuity as 2019's Joker flick. Both DC films employ a strikingly similar direction, exposing Gotham's gritty criminal underbelly. So, could that have been Arthur Fleck locked up in Arkham Asylum next to Paul Dano's Riddler?

Despite sharing many similarities, Matt Reeves has already dismissed the notion that The Batman and Todd Phillips' Joker occur in the same universe. When looking at the differences between both films, the possibility of Robert Pattinson's brooding vigilante facing off against Joaquin Phoenix's Clown Prince of Crime seems highly unlikely. This reality is even more obvious given the events of these movies and their planned sequels, which go in wildly different directions. Thus, The Batman and the Joker are much less connected than some might think.

Updated by Timothy Blake Donohoo on August 6, 2024: The Batman was a successful live-action reboot in 2022, and it followed in the footsteps of the 2019 movie Joker. Neither was related to the DC Extended Universe, which was still running at that time. Thus, many have wondered if the Joaquin Phoenix Joker is in the Batman Universe. Both The Batman and Joker are now getting their own sequels and spinoffs, cementing them as being in different universes.

The Time Jump Between Joker and The Batman is Massive

One element that made Joker work so well was its retro tone, making the movie's more muted version of Gotham City feel like the grittiest elements of New York City during the 1970s and 1980s. The city suffered from several burgeoning problems during the era —- topped by an infamous power blackout in 1977 — reflected in movies like Martin Scorsese's Taxi Driver and Walter Hill's The Warriors. (When 1981's Escape from New York posited the entire city as a giant prison, no one had trouble believing it.) That's the vibe that Joker hits in its depiction of Gotham. Accordingly, the film is resolutely set during that era, with nothing resembling technological modernity. Hi-tech computers, cell phones, and similar elements of the modern-day remain completely absent from Joker. It even has a very specific time mark. The movie they attended that fateful night was 1981's Zorro the Gay Blade, which riffed on 1940's The Mark of Zorro, the Waynes' traditional final screening as a family. Brian De Palma's Blow Out, also released in 1981, plays in the theater.

Therein lies the biggest reason why it's not in the same continuity as The Batman. Joker is set firmly in 1981, while The Batman is set roughly in the current day. A newsreel in The Batman reveals that Thomas Wayne ran for mayor in 2001 (hinting at the setting being 2021, given the mention of "20 years ago" in the dialogue). This further confirms that the Waynes were still alive coming into the 21st century in this timeline. In 2019's Joker, Bruce Wayne was depicted as a child, so it's safe to assume he would now be in his fifties—far closer to Ben Affleck's Caped Crusader than Robert Pattinson's. However, the version of the character in The Batman is considerably younger (Pattison was 36 when the film was released) and only in his second year of crime-fighting.

This would also make Phoenix's Joker too old to be the Clown Prince of Crime for the so-called "BatVerse." That's further cemented by the fact Barry Keoghan plays a separate rendition of The Joker in The Batman's ending. His take on the character is physically disfigured and different from Phoenix's Joker/Arthur Fleck, not to mention younger and much earlier in his criminal run. The logistical realities simply make it impossible for The Batman and Joker to function in the same universe. It doesn't help that their worlds are a lot different, with Joker being a 1970s throwback, while The Batman is much more modern, though both are equally seedy.

The Batman and Joker Have Different Takes on the Waynes

The differences extend beyond the timeline, though they can be subtle. That's especially the case for the Wayne family and Thomas Wayne. In Joker, the rich philanthropist is portrayed in a somewhat brusque manner, notably by dismissing the violent actions caused by Arthur Fleck/Joker. When Fleck approaches him later during a play, he lashes out at the disturbed man and punches him. This furthers the sense of tragedy in Joker, as Arthur Fleck had erroneously believed that Wayne may have been his father.

Conversely, Thomas Wayne in The Batman was seemingly more pacifistic, which led him to operate on the well-known criminal Carmine Falcone. Joker's version is far more complacent and self-satisfied. The Batman's is a good man doing his best in a morally compromised situation. Both speak volumes about their respective films and the effect Bruce's father may have had on his subsequent career as a crime fighter.

Ultimately, Bruce Wayne's parents died under different circ*mstances in each adaptation. In Joker, Thomas and Martha are casualties of the city riot, which is seen near the movie's end. In comparison, The Batman reveals Bruce Wayne's parents were intentionally murdered by Carmine Falcone's men in a mob hit. Conversely, Martha Wayne's maiden name is Arkham in that universe, echoing the Batman: Earth One comics and tying her to Arkham Asylum. That familial connection isn't present in Joker, where Arkham Asylum also receives a more realistic design and portrayal.

Reeves and Phillips' Differing Interpretations of the Batman/Joker Relationship

In The Joker's solo outing, the titular character effectively created Batman. Arthur Fleck's antics sparked an anarchist movement in Gotham, which led to the brutal murder of Bruce Wayne's parents, the inciting incident that made him become Batman. This version of The Dark Knight will be needed to keep Gotham under control from the generations of criminals likely inspired by Fleck. At the same time, given how grounded things are so far in the universe of Joker, it's questionable whether this world will ever truly need a version of Batman.

However, in The Batman, the Caped Crusader's actions inadvertently lead to the emergence of far more terrifying criminals, such as The Riddler and this universe's version of The Joker. Just like how Joker created Batman in the 2019 film, Batman created The Joker in this universe. It isn't until the end of the movie that Wayne realizes he must use Batman as a symbol of hope for the people of Gotham rather than a symbol of fear for the corrupted. It was fear that caused criminals to start adopting Batman's vengeful persona to get back at him and claim the city for themselves.

Why The Batman and Joker Have Separate Continuities

Although Todd Phillips and Matt Reeves set out to create two of DC's most gritty and realistic movies, it is ultimately pure coincidence that ​​​​​​Joker and The Batman feel so much alike. Thus, they offer a reprieve from the idea of shared universes that has become common among superhero movies. Following the end of the DC Extended Universe with the release of Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, James Gunn is rebooting with the new cinematic DC Universe. This new continuity begins with the animated TV series Creature Commandos and the 2025 movie Superman. Gunn has also confirmed that Phillips and Reeves' further projects are part of the DC Elseworlds line, existing in their own canon.

Thanks to recent movies and shows like Spider-Man: No WayHome and the animated adaptation of Crisis on Infinite Earths, mainstream audiences are embracing the notion of franchises branching out into multiple universes. This multiverse of endless creative possibilities allows for more standalone projects, which present beloved comic properties with a unique lens. In this respect, movies like The Batman and Joker are arguably best enjoyed in their own separate corner of reality.

The Batman and Joker are Getting Their Own Follow-Ups

The Batman: Part II

The sequel to 2022's The Batman will continue what director Matt Reeves has described as an "epic crime saga." It's still unknown exactly where the sequel (titled The Batman: Part II) will take the story, though there are several rumors. Some suspect that versions of villains such as Clayface and Mr. Freeze may be utilized as antagonists, though, this might be unlikely due to how unrealistic and "comic booky" they are compared to the world of the first movie. Likewise, other rumors, which have now been debunked, involved Dick Grayson appearing as Robin. More than likely, Barry Keoghan's version of The Joker will return in some way, though he might not be the movie's main villain. The Penguin is an upcoming spinoff TV series set after The Batman. Following Colin Farrell's version of The Penguin, it will showcase Oswald Cobblepot's rise to power in Gotham City's criminal underworld.

Featuring a mix of origin characters and familiar comic book faces, the Penguin series will seemingly adapt elements of iconic Batman stories, namely the book Batman: Dark Victory. It's scheduled to stream on Max and air on HBO on September 19, 2024, and while the wait for The Batman: Part II just got longer (October 2, 2026), fans might get to see the Robert Pattinson version of Batman at some point in The Penguin. A Gotham City Police Department series was discussed, but the show's development faced many stalls and creative issues before it was eventually scrapped. An Arkham Asylum show was another planned entry in the so-called "BatVerse," but it's now been confirmed by James Gunn as taking place in the new DC Universe — if it happens at all.

Joker: Folie à Deux

Joker: Folie à Deux is the upcoming sequel to 2019's Joker. It's also the only DC movie to be released in theaters in 2024 as DC Studios restructures to prepare for the launch of the new DC Universe. Though plot details are also under wraps, it will notably feature Lady Gaga as that universe's version of Harleen Quinzel/Harley Quinn. Likewise, the movie is set to be a musical, altering it somewhat from the first movie's scope. The first teaser depicts the two of them slowly falling for each other, seemingly alternating between Gotham's grim reality and a fantasy musical world in which they are the stars. Brendan Gleeson, Catherine Keener, Jacob Lofland, and Harry Lawtey have all been announced as part of the cast, though their exact roles have yet to be revealed.

More than likely, Joker: Folie à Deux will retain the sharply realistic tone of the first movie. This means that more overt elements of the Batman mythos will be kept to a minimum and that outlandish sequences (such as the teaser's musical numbers) will be presented as fabrications of one of the two lead characters. The movie's trailer looks at these, which still feel within the grounded confines of the first Joker from 2019.

Likewise, there seems to be a continued divergence from the comics' source material. The usual relationship between Harley Quinn and The Joker is seemingly reversed in Joker: Folie à Deux, with Harley inspiring him to return to his criminal persona. This inverts how he's usually the one to turn her from a psychiatrist into a crook. Given that the movie doesn't take place that long after the first movie, it's likely impossible for the Joker universe Bruce Wayne to become Batman by the end of the film. That will only strengthen the distinct differences between Joker: Folie à Deux and Matt Reeves' Batman movies and hopefully end the question of whether Joker is related to The Batman.

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  The Batman

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  A vigilante in Gotham City delves into the criminal underworld after a series of sad*stic games and cryptic clues emerge. As he uncovers corruption that entwines the city's elites and criminal figures, his quest for justice brings him into direct conflict with an enigmatic foe who has a broader plan for chaos.

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  Joker (2019)

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  *Availability in US

  During the 1980s, a failed stand-up comedian is driven insane and turns to a life of crime and chaos in Gotham City while becoming an infamous psychopathic crime figure.